Gymnastics and Grit: Insights from Olympian Missy Marlowe

In this episode of Rise and Grind, host Thurl Bailey welcomes Olympic gymnast Missy Marlowe, a remarkable athlete and inspiring figure in the world of gymnastics. With a career that includes representing the United States at the 1988 summer Olympics in Seoul Korea, Missy shares her incredible journey of dedication, discipline, and determination. 

Join us as Missy reflects on her experiences training at the highest level, the rigorous demands of elite competition, and the invaluable life lessons she has learned along the way. She opens up about the challenges she faced as a young athlete and how she navigated the pressures of performance, mental health, and the pursuit of excellence. 

Missy also discusses her passion for empowering young athletes and fostering a positive environment in sports. Her insights on resilience and adaptability will resonate with listeners from all walks of life, whether in sports, business, or personal endeavors. 

Don’t miss this inspiring conversation filled with motivation, practical tips, and the empowering spirit of an Olympic champion. Like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments as we dive into the amazing story of Missy Marlowe! 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Rise and Grind! If you enjoyed Thurl Bailey's inspiring basketball journey and insights, be sure to subscribe to the podcast for more powerful stories and motivational conversations. 

Help us spread the word by leaving a review and sharing this episode with friends and fellow basketball enthusiasts. Connect with us on social media to join the conversation and stay updated on future episodes. 

Remember, your journey might have its challenges, but with grit and determination, you can rise above and achieve your dreams. Keep grinding, and we'll see you next time!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I just wasn't doing well. So I really, really struggled. And I finished tenth in the country at the national championships in 1986. And I was expected to be at least in the top three, if not first. I had already filled out all the paperwork for the first ever Goodwill games that was in Moscow that year. I had the visas for it. You know, it was kind of assumed who would be on that team. And for whatever reason, a lot of us struggled at that meet. And anyways, I got sent to Brazil and Argentina instead, kind of with a B team, which ended up being an absolutely pivotal trip in my life.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

You know, every once in a while, you get the opportunity to sit down with someone whose name is just etched in greatness. Not just because of what they accomplished, but because of the standard they set. Today's guest is one of those people. Missy Marlowe is a five-time U.S. national team member, the 1987 USA Gymnastics Athlete of the Year. And an Olympian, representing the United States on the 1988 Olympic team. At the collegiate level, she didn't just compete, she dominated. A 12-time NCAA All-American, a seven-time national champion, five individual titles, and two team championships, and the recipient of the prestigious AAI Award. In 1992, she made history, winning the Honda Cup, an honor given to the top female collegiate athlete in the nation, becoming one of only a handful of gymnasts to ever receive it in over 50 years. Her legacy has been recognized with induction into multiple Hall of Fames, including USA Gymnastics, the Utah Sports Hall of Fame, the Pac-12 Hall of Honor, and the Crimson Club Hall of Fame. But as we are on this show, greatness isn't just about medals and awards. It's about the discipline, the sacrifice, the setbacks, and the mindset it takes to rise to that level. Missy, it is such an honor to have you on the show and welcome.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Thank you. You made me sit up a little taller here reading all of that. That was very kind. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Well, I I I've got to put this out there because you know we had a pretty chance encounter uh in Amsterdam. We're both uh waiting to get on a flight to return back to Salt Lake City. And I didn't tell you this, but I I I looked at you and I knew I recognized you. But it took your courage to walk over to this seven-foot guy standing out in an airport and in and because you recognized me to introduce yourself. So I I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Yeah, it took me a minute too. I think I looked at you for a good 15 minutes before I got up the nerve to go and say hi. I mean, you're pretty recognizable, right? I should have known that sooner. But um, you know, you never know. It's kind of, I think we've all maybe thought we saw someone we knew and didn't. So it did take me a minute, but it was really great to run into you. And you're right, you were sitting in the back, and I can't give a seven-foot-tall man enough credit. That was that was some tight, some tight quarters. I'm impressed that you made it through that nine and a half hour flight the way you did.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Well, I did take a couple of selfies with you in it, but I think I cut my head off in a couple, so I'll send you those.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Probably. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

So, Missy, let's let's dive in. Let's let's um let's start at the beginning. That's a good place. So, when did gymnastic gymnastics go from something you enjoyed to something you knew you wanted to pursue seriously?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Well, I started in a little one-hour DCE class at the University of Utah. My mom enrolled me. Um it, you know, it wasn't much. And I think I was six years old. Um, lived in, you know, I didn't grow up with the cards stacked for me, so to speak. We lived in a different apartment every year. Um, my mom and I, my parents divorced when I was two. My father struggled with alcoholism his entire life, um, really until he died of last year. And it was just kind of the two of us. She worked full-time, she got a master's degree from the University of Utah in um in Counciling, excuse me. So, you know, it was, it was kind of just the two of us. And it just started in a one little one-hour class of the University of Utah. And that coach um left that program and opened a gym in Bountiful at the time. And he just said, you know, can Missy come and I want her to try out for my new team. And that's how it all started. And so I went and and, you know, my mom to her credit. She's like, well, we'll figure it out. I don't know how I'm gonna get my daughter to Bountiful, you know, a couple of times a week working full time, but um pulled resources, yes, and got it done. And um, I was so I went from one hour a week to a couple of times a week for two to three hours. And I just I love the support of gymnastics. I don't know if people can always say, if athletes can always say what it was I'd about their sport, you know, that drew them in, but I was small, very, very flexible, just inherently flexible. And I just loved the movement of it. And I wasn't, I wasn't scared. I didn't have a big fear factor. So I was willing to kind of a little bit of a daredevil. So it came kind of naturally that way. Um, as a super spazzy kid, just bouncing off the walls, not in like an ADD kind of way, but just energy. And I just I just loved the movement of gymnastics. And I would go out, I'd spend all recess tumbling in elementary school, swinging on the bars. I taught myself some things at recess that a lot of kids, you know, have to go into the gym and spend years learning. And to me, it was just playtime. So it all started kind of from there, and just the way sports works. One year, you're one level. If you try for the next level, you make it. Um, it really was playtime until about sixth grade. So about the first three, four years of actual classes was playtime, and I learned to love it.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

And so what age were you when it really started to become a competition, really?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Well, that gym that I was at closed for a couple of months. They had financial trouble, and that was uh after my fifth grade year of school. So very young, right? I know that sounds young, but I switched to a gym. I either had to quit or we had to switch to the one gym in the Salt Lake Valley that was really, really advanced. And so I made that switch the summer before sixth grade. And that summer started five days a week for five hours every day from eight to one ish in the after, you know, every day. And it was a really, really hard transition. So I would say that was the first time where it maybe wasn't a fun, where it was really serious, where um the coaching was was more intense, where I had a couple coaches that were wonderful and a couple that were um a little bit mean um that I didn't care for so much. And that was probably my pivotal time of deciding, you know, am I gonna do it? Am I not gonna do this? And I went to my mom one day, I think it was about I mean we're going way back now, but um mid-summer. And I'm just like, I don't know if I want to do this. And she said, let's stick it out through summer and then you can decide because this upcoming school year was gonna take a whole lot of finabling to make it work. Um, and it was enough time to just get adjusted. And what I noticed was that I was starting to catch up to the girls that were older and had been at this gym longer, and I was starting to do the really cool skills that um I didn't know I could do. And so somewhere along the way, I just decided that it was worth it. And then when I enrolled in sixth grade, uh I went to gymnastics from one to six on Mondays and Fridays, and then from 3:30 to 8:30 Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And uh I guess that's when you could say kind of the grind started for real.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Well, that was that answers my what my next question was going to be about that daily discipline. What did that look like? But the other question I wanted to ask, because it's you know as well as I do, sports is interesting, especially when you're young, because there's all these people out there that at some point have a similar desire as you. And at a certain point when it starts to get serious, you know, you're separated from those who are just you know, it's just fun. So at that level, at that competitive level, my guess is that most of the girls or everyone at some level is talented. So what separated you even at that young age, maybe mentally, um, from the physical part of maybe what some of the other girls did not have or were trying to develop?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Well, on my private club, even though we were kind of a smaller club from Salt Lake City, um, I had some really, really talented teammates. And I was one of three at one time that were actually on the national that qualified all the way to Elite and to the national team. So I had really good teammates to train with. Um, but yeah, you're right. Once you reach a certain point, you know, it gets a little bit lonelier. But I will say my best friends were in the gym. Um, I did not fit a you typical Utah mold. You know, if you go back to the 1970s, um, and you think about the demographics in Salt Lake City, I was an only child. All of my friends at school had uh five to seven brothers and sisters. Yeah. My parents were divorced, all their parents were married. Um, we didn't have much money. Um, they all lived in the giant houses up behind the U. You know, um I didn't really, I didn't have problems in school socially. I had a couple good friends there, but I didn't really fit in. But at the gym, I fit in. And I was comfortable at the gym and I had teammates that were my best friends, and that's who I socialized with. Um, so I had really, really good friends there, many of whom I'm still really close to to this day. So I was comfortable in the gym. Um, and at some point it just becomes a process of elimination through competitions. And so most of the competitions I went to, none of them on the national team were with my teammates. Um, I was the only the only one that had that made it to that level, that high of a level. But training-wise, my best friends were in the gym. But, you know, I started traveling internationally um in sixth grade. And my first, yeah, I know it sounds crazy. My first trip out of the country, and it was only to Canada, but it was still out of the country. You know, I flew by myself. This was a team competition with other juniors around the country, and it was Canada, Italy, France. I can't remember the other teams that were there. But we had to call Orrin Hatch at the time, Senator Hatch, and get a passport expedited. I don't know if you remember how the senators used to be the ones to push those through quickly. And um my mom put me on a plane and they said, don't lose your passport. The coaches will be waiting for you after customs. And I was in tears. I'm like, what's customs? And what happens if I lose this document? You know, it was really intimidating. Um, and so I just got used to doing things at a young age that were pretty independent. And of course, you know, I got to Canada, everything was fine, had the time of my life, and just fell in love with the travel. And for me, I was lucky because my work in the gym really paid off at a young age. Um, and then it from there on I competed in 11 other countries through the course of junior high and high school.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

So you know obviously they're gonna be a lot of moms and young girls, and and it doesn't even have to be gymnastics, but that are interested in sports. Um, you talked a little bit about early when when you were trying to transition from it being fun to serious. Um do you ever have those days? What did you do if you did? I'm sure you did have those days when you you didn't feel like it. You didn't feel like maybe you had second thoughts about was it too hard? What did you do?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Everybody does. I mean, obviously everybody does. I think mine wasn't, I really didn't struggle with is it worth it until I was all the way into my senior year high school. Like at the end, the year before the Olympics was really, really tough. Up until that point, it was um I loved being in the gym. I really did. And my mom never made me do it. She was never that parent. If anything, she was a little bit non-competitive and didn't really, didn't really love the competitive aspect of it. She was kind of bored. She's an interesting mix of super feisty, but not in an organized, competitive kind of a way. So and I love being in the gym. Really, more what was hard for me was like the physical pain of the injuries because there's not a lot of downtime at that level. So on a daily basis, you get the bloody rips, you know, and you're expected to do bars anyways, and you can't even make a fist with your hands. They hurt so bad, you know, and skin's peeled back and kind of raw and gross. And, you know, those were the days I remember the sore ankles. Um, I had shin splints for the last four years in college and four years in club gymnastics that just hurt to even walk. And then we discovered in my freshman year of college that I had some stress fractures in my back that had healed. So I'd say those were the things that got frustrating for me because honestly, I never I didn't mind the work. I I liked the grind, I liked the discipline of it. Um, I showed up, I think I showed up ready to work every day. And I wanted that. I really, really wanted that. It was a source of pride for me. And like I said, not really fitting in socially real well with the typical Utah kid. It was something that set me apart, and it's something that I had and it's something that I was proud of. So that push wasn't it, but I say it was just the pain of not really one singular great injury, but just the cumulative things that kind of get tiring every day.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

You like the grind. I love that. Love that. So here's here's a question for you. Uh along those lines. You started this at a very young age, and you talked about, you know, getting most getting into high school. Were you do you feel like you were chasing greatness or you were trying not to fail?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

That's a great question. Um maybe a little bit of both, because and I'll say why competing aggressively did not come naturally naturally to me at all. And in fact, when I was 14, I started working really closely with the sports psychologist um of the Utah Jazz, Dr. Keith Henshin. I don't know if you knew Dr. Henshin, but um, and we boy, we ended up really close by the time I was done with gymnastics. I was a that was a lot of work for him. Um, but I I loved to be in the gym. I did not love to compete. Uh especially Balance Beam would just just give me fits. Um not practicing it, it didn't scare me to do, like it does most young gymnasts, but I did not like to compete it. So um I worked closely with him when the competition side of it really started to fail. And I think to your, to what you said, maybe being more afraid of making a mistake than of seeing, you know, on a positive side where it could go. And that's what sports psychology does, is it teaches you to change that thinking. I think for me, it took all the way to my sophomore year of college before I really started to embrace that and went from a mindset of um being afraid to fail to now I want to win. And it's because of the team that we had behind us at the University of Utah and my coaches up there.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

So let's jump to um USA Gymnastics Athlete of the Year. Great honor, of course, but did did that create more pressure on you, or were you able to handle that?

SPEAKER_00 16:39

No, that particular award uh came in 1987, and in 1986 I really struggled. Um not with not with wanting to quit. I never wanted to quit, but just I wasn't competing well and I wasn't doing well, and I was on the verge of training, uh changing gyms. And um at the time that meant moving away from home and living in someone else's house and going to either Bella Carolis in Texas or to Scatts in Southern California. And so it was just a really stressful time. And I didn't really, I didn't want to leave, you know, um, I just wasn't doing well. So I really, really struggled. And I finished 10th in the country at the national championships in 1986, and I was expected to be at least in the top three, if not first. I had already filled out all the paperwork for the first ever Goodwill games that was in Moscow that year. I had um the visas for it, you know, it was kind of assumed who would be on that team. And for whatever reason, a lot of a lot of us struggled at that meet. And anyways, I got sent to Brazil and Argentina instead, um, kind of with a B team, which ended up being an absolutely pivotal trip in my life, completely, totally pivotal that, you know, to this day I'm so grateful for. But um, at the time it was very devastating. And so we just kind of reevaluated. I kept working with Keith, uh, with Dr. Henshin. I um worked with my coaches really well and uh just refocused. You know, you do what you do, what you do, and I wasn't gonna quit, wasn't gonna quit over it. It was just kind of what's gonna happen from now. And so I came back really strong in 1987 and I was second at the national championships, and I think that's where that award came from was to kind of recognize where I was and then where I dropped to, and then where I got back to.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Was it normal back then for an athlete to have a Keith Henson? To have a sports? Yeah, I didn't think so.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Um USA Gymnastics had tried to bring him on, and he got a lot of pushback actually from Bella Carroll, because Bella didn't want anyone messing, as he thought, but messing with his athletes. You know, he was um really firmly wanted to be in control. So, no, Dr. Henshin was established really well. He was on five different governing boards for different teams. I know Chockenfield was one of them, USA Bach de Ball, he was with the Jazz Main already at the University of Utah and with the gymnasts up there and other teams um up there. But no, it was pretty unusual to work one-on-one with someone, and I was really, really lucky. I know he uh did it for a discounted price because at the time we couldn't afford him, you know?

SPEAKER_02 19:12

And um so what was the mindset with a coach like um Bella? Was it not in was it not as important in that era?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Well, my my coaches were kind. I mean, they really were. I had kind coaches, and they to me at least, they weren't yellers and screamers, they they weren't mean. Um they were they were kind coaches. Not all gymnasts can say that for sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Um but but with Keith, it gave me someone to um talk about gymnastics with, talk about life with, and what you'd learn is just how to compartmentalize and how to not let anything from the outside enter your gymnastics time or your training time. And I learned how to make gym my safe space rather than my stressful space. And it was invaluable. I still, you know, I still have skills for my days with Dr. Henshin.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Well, it sounds like um Dr. Henshin was your safe space and the gym was your safe place, um, which is it's pretty powerful. Now let's I want to dive a little more inside your craft. Okay, so um right before you begin a routine at that level, what's how do you process it? What's going through your mind?

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Uh what I learned to do is just visualization. Um, I think what every, you know, every free throw shooter does when you're standing in the line, you just picture that ball going in. And that's what I learned to do, um, except on balance beam. Never got there. Never once ever won. Nope. Right? I mean, I I won balance beam twice in college in at the end in the NC2A championships, and I never once wanted to do that beam routine. Everything else came along well. Um but it's just it's visualization, it's taking deep breaths, and it's um at the time no one used the phrase trust your training, but that's really my favorite phrase now is trust your training. Um and just trying to trying to realize that you you learn how to cut out the distractions, you know, you learn how to turn off the noise and you learn how to focus. Um, but because I was, I I never, I never got over being that little bit of a nervous competitor. I used adrenaline, I learned how to use adrenaline to help. Um on beam, it never helps. But on the other three events, on bars, beam, and floor, it can help a little bit. So you have to learn how to channel the energy and um channel the stressors into something that is useful rather than hurtful. And uh it takes years to do that. Years.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

You know, in my profession in basketball, we have this saying, and I had a few moments like this um about being in the zone. Do you ever have those moments? I'm sure you did, where. You were maybe not perfect but close to it, or maybe even perfect. How did that feel? And how were you able to kind of uh compartmentalize that and use it?

SPEAKER_00 22:16

As I matured through the sport and got to the University of Utah, I learned, I went from kind of okay, let's survive this meet to okay, let's score a tet. And that was, you know, thanks to Greg Marsden, Megan Marsden, Jim Stevenson, our assistant coach, um, Dr. Hanson, and just really Dr. Hill, you know, our athletic director, there was so much support there and um so much positive energy that we could really focus and key in on that. And it after my freshman year, which was not pretty, my freshman year is horrible. And I had to kind of reevaluate and decide I was if I was gonna quit or come back, I decided, you know, this is it, nothing's gonna stop me. And and I had the support to do that. And at that point, I realized that I could take it wherever I wanted to go. And I didn't want to just be good and I didn't want to float. I had the ability and I had the backing and the support to, you know, try to be the best. And I would, I got really, really hungry again, like I had been in 1987, um, you know, leading up to the Olympics, I got really hungry again. And the people of Utah, as you know, are the absolute best. I mean, the fans of the University of Utah are unbeatable. So that part wasn't hard at all. It was I I wanted to do it for them. I wanted to do it for my teammates, I wanted to do it for my coaches. And um, every time I I learned how to salute and say, I'm not just gonna hit this routine. I want a 9-9, I want a 995, things go well, I want a 10.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Mm-hmm. Okay, tell us. Tell us what it felt like stepping out onto the Olympic stage.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

The Olympics are a whole different thing. Um it's it's really hard. You can't prepare yourself for the Olympics, I don't think. And we saw that, you know, we're coming off the winter Olympics, and we saw some superstars absolutely excel. And then we saw, you know, some of the skaters not so much, and kind of say, I wasn't, I thought I was prepared, and maybe, you know, mentally I wasn't. And that is completely true. It is so enormous and so much bigger than you are. Um, there's not a, you know, world championships doesn't touch the Olympic Games. The Pan American Games doesn't touch the Olympic Games. Um, and it's just everything. It's the signage, the mascots, the energy, the the thousands and thousands of people, the village, the press. Um, it's unrelenting and you never get away from it. I can I understand now why some athletes choose to stay outside the village, even though I kind of think that's a shame and that you miss out on experiencing it. Mentally, it does make sense. Um, it's so enormous and it's so overwhelming. Um, and there's just you walk in and I just you just feel like this can't be real. And yet you have to focus harder than you've ever focused in your life. And, you know, and it's hard. And um some of the countries, remember, this is the communist era. So the Russians, Romanian, the Chinese, they they were used to um, I won't say more serious. We trained very, very seriously, but um we were just I was allowed to have kind of that moment of awe, I would, I would say. I didn't feel like a robot out there, and I really had to take a deep breath and rein it in because it's a very overwhelming experience and absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

You have had to imagine that experience when you're young. Did it match your experience that you had growing up?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Or um it's it's surreal. You know, I didn't really start thinking about the Olympics though until I was probably maybe even 15, where it's like, oh my gosh, this is getting close now. Now we're within a couple years. Could this even really happen? You know, is this is this actually real? And then it kind of kicked in. Um but no, you you walk into the arena and you're like, I can't even, I can't even believe this is happening. Um, and that's even different than than making the Olympic team at Olympic trials. It's different than going through processing, you know. The whole the processing alone is a crazy event. You're sending bags and bags and bags of goods home. And it's like people are just giving you all this stuff. It's amazing. Um, you're watching videos about terrorism and what they're gonna do if someone tries to attack the doors. They talk about how we fly over on commercial airlines so that there's not a terrorist target, you know, to blow up. I mean, it's intense. It's a lot. It's a lot at any time, it's a whole lot when you're 17.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Well, we will be right back to continue our conversation with um with Missy Marlowe. So hang in there. We'll be right back in just a second. Hey guys, time out. You know, you give your best to your work, your family, and your responsibilities. But to keep showing up strong, you've got to stay dialed in. At Game Day Men's Health, the nation's leading men's clinic, they help you get back in the game. With a custom game plan built around your labs, your goals, and your performance. Testosterone, peptides, real optimization. Come in today for a free testosterone test and consult. Tell them Big T sent you, and you get 50% off your first year membership. Game Daymenshealth.com. Victory starts within. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to this episode of Rising Grind. We are been talking to decorated gymnast Missy Marlowe and all of her accomplishments and the grind that she loves so much that got her all the accolades and medals and awards and Hall of Fames. Um it's been really interesting talking to you as a former athlete myself, right? And drawing some of those parallels, Missy. Uh I I think one of the things that maybe separates us a little bit is in basketball, you always have these other guys around. It's definitely a team sport. And I know to some degree, you know, you you you're associated with a team, but for the most part, there's a lot of individual work that has to be put in. Um when you were growing up, I mean, did you ever participate in like team sports and no um no nothing else?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

No. Um my mom took me skiing a few times, and as crazy as it sounds, I didn't like it. Um, she tried to get me to play tennis a little bit. Now I wish I was a good tennis player, but at the time wasn't having it. Nope, that's what I love to do. There is nothing else. I did I took dance for a couple years, but that would have been a disaster.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Not necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

But now I, you know, the thing that's cool about gymnastics, and I tell people this all the time, everyone should put their kids in gymnastics. Whatever they go on to do, they will be a hundred times better. Um, there is nothing better for the development of children, I think, than gymnastics. Um, you'll be a better basketball player, you'll be a better football player, you'll be a better soccer player, you know, anything. Um, nothing gets the upper body. Yeah, it's it's just such an amazing sport. And I you know, obviously most kids aren't gonna stick with it long term, but you will be better at everything you go on to do for it. And, you know, a lot of basketball or a lot of um, I don't know about basketball, I meant to say football. If you can get your football players to take dance, they're gonna be better football players, you know, like just the development of the development is so important. So huge gymnastics batch.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

So on board because uh my wife Cindy and I, we have two basketball players and a boys and a volleyball player, and they started in gymnastics.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Um the problem came when my daughter was she's six four. My two sons, six eight and six ten. So, you know, they kind they kind of grew out of it. But you're right. I mean, it has it really helped them in the sports that they decided to to pursue. So I want to get into um identity now in life after sport. Because for all of us, even me as a basketball player, um, we get to the point where we have to plan after the sport. So when your competitive career ended, who were you without gymnastics?

SPEAKER_00 30:56

The first time I watched a Utah gymnastics meet from the stands, I put my head down and I cried. It was awful. I hated it. Um, you know, I hear athletes all the time, and I think it's really, really healthy, but they say I'm not that's not who I was, it's just what I did. But I I don't feel like that. Like to me, gymnastics, a gymnastics is who I was, and it is who I am. And personally, I love that. I can understand how um maybe psychologists would say that's not necessarily the healthiest view you can have, but that's my story. Um, I love the sport and I still identify with it. Um, I still sit back, I remember my routines, I remember the moves, I remember the feeling, and I love that I have that memory and it they're really, really important to me. Um, but yeah, it's it's very hard to move on. Um, I owned a gym for eight years.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Sorry, the transition was difficult.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Very, it still is 35 years later. I still want to go back and do it again. Um at the time, I was you know, so sore and hurting. Um, and I I was talking to the youth gymnasts um a couple different times over the last two years, and I'm like, you know, you're sore, you're tired after the championships, you can barely walk, you just want to get out of there, but that goes away in a couple of weeks, and then you'll you want it back and you get hungry again. Um, but it is it is hard to transition. I owned a gym for eight years and I coached for a long time. And then eventually my older daughter, well, both my kids did it. My older daughter did it in college at a really high level. And um, she ended up back at the club that she had originally started at. And at that point, you know, I really had to step back. Um and it's it is, it's hard, it's hard, but I have friends all over the country and a lot of us former national team members, former collegiate athletes, and there's nothing that makes us happier than getting together with our teammates. I it's my comfort zone. I'm comfortable around athletes. I am comfortable. Um, and it doesn't matter, men, women, any sports. It doesn't matter. It's kind of my happy place. So I've never lost a sense of that.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Well, I my era was before yours, but even into your era of gymnastics, we didn't have a lot of what these young athletes have at their disposal. Some good, some bad. Um, you competed like I did before social media. How different would that experience have been if everything was being judged real time?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

I can't even imagine it. I I don't think, I don't think if we haven't truly lived it, we could have imagined it. Um I mean, I was, especially through high school, really, really disciplined. There would have been nothing to see on my end, you know. But college, we had some fun. And if we were um, you know, we our our rule was kind of don't ever embarrass the program, don't embarrass the coaches, but they knew that we were gonna have a life outside of the gym. And as long as that was, you know, kept reasonable, it was fine. Um, I don't know how they do it now. I think it's mostly really sad and quite fake and um very surface level, but it is the reality and it is something they have to deal with. You know, my kids, your kids were are the generation just in the heart of uh social media. And I'm pretty active on social media now, but as an adult, there's you know, it doesn't it doesn't matter. I mean, people can listen to me or not, it doesn't matter. But as an athlete back in the in the day, boy throw, I don't know, I I can't imagine it. I personally think it would have been awful.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Well, you're mentoring your own kids, of course, but you were if you were mentoring kids in this day and age, what would you teach them about handling that kind of noise?

SPEAKER_00 34:57

You know, it's really easy to say, oh, it just doesn't matter. You know, who cares what strangers think of you? Um, me as an almost 55-year adult, I can say that and I can believe it. But when you're, you know, 17, 18, 22 years old, whatever, I don't know if you have the maturity to do that. And it hurts. You know, and you even hear of, you know, actors and actresses are really, really famous athletes that say even Lindsay Vaughn of this last Olympics, you know, man, these words, some of these words really, really hurt. Um, I think that's what therapists are for. And to help um, you know, or whoever, whoever your inner circle is, whether it's your church, your teachers, your family, your therapists, um, to to block it out, that's a whole nother skill that we didn't have to deal with on that level. And I think it seems awful. I love that athletes can make more money now, or well, in some ways. NIL is kind of a kind of a hot mess. But um, you know, I love that there are opportunities for them. I love that I get to see, you know, again, for example, the last winter Olympians on a level that I never would have known before. And they're super cool people, you know, it's been fun, but there's a price to pay. And um, as a coach, I mean, you probably should, and I know in college they do, they're having, you know, sit-down sessions about how to manage this and how to be a little careful about what you put out because it's not a free-for-all. It can't be.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

So, what concerns you most about the pressure that young gymnasts are facing today, other than the social media part? Are there any other things that are dealing with?

SPEAKER_00 36:37

You know, gymnastics has gone through um a lot of upheaval. And uh, when the Larry Nasser scandal broke, things were just end on end. And, you know, I I mean, I knew I knew him not well, but I did. I actually predated him. He came into USA gymnastics the year I retired after 1988. Um, but that that whole thing was on such a horrific level, and things were so bad for so many years. But, you know, what came out of that was um a renewed energy to allow athletes and especially gymnasts, young athletes, um, and especially women also to to speak up and talk and it started a dialogue that is still going to this day, that didn't used to be there. You know, mental health didn't, I don't feel like it really existed in my day. Um, as much as Keith Henshin helped me with pressure, it wasn't really mental health and the way it is now. So that has come a long, long way. And the fact that most good schools have a psychologist available and as, you know, deemed to their head psychologist that you can go to is really, really important, especially with the added pressure that you talk about of social media, where you're not in control of what people are saying, and you're not really in control a lot of times of what they're seeing and what they're doing. Um that has changed a lot. Uh, the weight issue has gotten infinitely better. I was weighed in as a gymnast every day, five days a week, from the age of 15 to 20. And um only for a brief period of time was I actually in trouble. But I did go, I was of the generation that was in trouble for you know being overweight. And uh that's I think that's I think from a from a systemic point of view, as up coming from the coaches, that's largely doesn't happen anymore. Now I don't want people to get upset with me, but because obviously athletes and gymnasts and dancers, divers, ice skaters, they all put have the pressure on themselves, models, actresses. I mean, it's not unique to sports. It's it's everybody. Um even long distance runners, you know, like it's it's across the sports. But I think there's a lot of scrutiny now if that kind of pressure comes directly from a coach the way it used to. Um, there are people you can tell and there are people that you can report to. So um, again, I don't want anyone to be mad at me and saying that's not the case, but I do think there have been strides made there. Um, and the fact that you should be able to go to your coach and talk to them, I think that that's what separates a great coach from a good coach. Um, I know not athletes. I mean, even my I have, you know, one daughter that's still in collegiate sports right now, and she doesn't speak up the way I would like her to. You know, of course, that's coming from my high purchase of wisdom here as a mother. But but there are discussions about it, and there are advocates out there for it. And that didn't used to happen. I think that's getting better.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Yeah. So what does Missy Marlowe do for fun? What I mean, you you I know you're raised.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Well, when I saw you, I was having fun. I'm gonna tell you that. Um, so I hit a little bit of a wall last year. Um, I said, I'm turning it this summer, I'm turning 55. And I'm like, man, that's kind of old. Getting up there. So I set some new goals just physically. You know, it's I don't know if you feel it thrill, but it's hard getting older when you're used to using your body. And um, you know, and gymnastics is such a hyper flexible, hyper mobile sport. And um so I got a crazy idea in my head to um try to run a marathon. Thank goodness that didn't really pan out because my friend and I didn't get into the one we wanted to sign up for, but we're still hoping to go back and do a couple halves. And you have to understand, I hate running and I don't do it. And a vault runway is 84 feet, and I've never run more than 12 steps my entire life. But I decided I had to do something. Um, I took a really, really amazing trip last year to Croatia and Greece, and I was gone for two and a half weeks. It's the longest I've ever been anywhere on vacation, and I did about two-thirds of the trip by myself. And I'm not I'm not married, I've been um single for divorce for 13 years, and that was really liberating. I wasn't afraid because of my childhood. I mean, I didn't I didn't think twice about going, but you know, I flew to Croatia and I piddled around there, and then I took a bus down to Dubrovnik and I piddled around there, and then I took a flight to Athens and piddled around there, and then got on an overnight ferry by myself and went out to Greece and met up with some really good friends there for a couple of days, came back, rented a car, drove up the coast of Croatia by myself for four and a half hours, met up with my daughter's college tour for a couple of days, and I kind of needed that renewed sense of adventure. I had, you know, you get a little stale as a parent for yourself sometimes. And um, and I had really, I mean, I I lived for my my oldest daughter's collegiate career at Cal. And now my younger daughter is also in volleyball um at Colorado Macy University, and um have had just really delved into their careers and loved every second of them and decided I it was time I needed to do something for myself. When I saw you, I had uh headed to Spain for 10 days, um, with some met up with some friends that had moved there, visited with them for a couple of days, and then went to Madrid by myself, come came back. And um, next week I'm a bunch of friends and I got the much coveted permits to Havasu Falls on the Havasu Bike.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Oh, good for you.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Well, it took all day. Three of us trying, refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh for about nine hours, but we did it. So that's gonna be really challenging for me. I've I still haven't done anything. I mean it's a you know, five, six, seven-hour hike in, pack in, pack out. It's gonna be hard. I'm really excited. And um, so I've I've decided I need I need to physically keep moving a little bit more. I'd gotten a little sedentary. So that's what's going on right now. Um, we'll see how it goes. I'm not a I'm not afraid to try things, but you know, you gotta be smart. We're getting older and things hurt now. And they hurt not because you did something, they just hurt because they hurt. So um I'm doing better than a lot of my friends, to be honest. You know, we all know people that have had the hips and the knees and the shoulders and replaced in the surgeries. And so far I'm staying ahead of that game, and I'm gonna do I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna do everything I can to stay out of the health system with the things that I can't control as long as I can, as much as I can.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Well, we know you're not afraid of hard things, but I am just so grateful to have you on this show. And those of you who are listening, um, I want you to think about this for a sec. The stage may change. Pressure may evolve, but what does it take to be really great? Missy competed in a time with without social media, without constant noise. Today athletes are dealing with all of that and and more. So what does that require now? More discipline? More focus? More resilience? Or maybe something a little deeper? Self-awareness. And here's the real question. You may not control the environment environment you're in. But are you controlling how you show up in it? And that's what Rise and Grind is all about, and that's why we have the unique opportunity to talk to former athletes like Missy Marlowe. Missy, your insights are going to change a lot of lives. There are so many uh athletes, not just young girls, who are still looking up to you because you've had that experience. They they they want to visualize being where you you were. So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Thank you. That's very kind, Thor. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Well, thank you so much for honoring us with your presence and um good luck in all your your coming adventures.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Thank you. It's been great to talk to you.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

That's another episode of Rise and Grind. Thank you for joining us. And uh go on and if you like what you've heard, send us a comment. And we will talk to you next time. We'll see you next time on Rise and Grind, the Thorough Bailey Podcast. Take care of each other. Have a great week.